GLPHubglpresearchhub.com
Read-only archive. GLP Research Hub is a static community record — nothing here is for sale, no account is needed, and no vote you cast is counted. Why?
Archived. This submission is more than a year old. Votes and new comments are closed, and some of the advice in it may have been superseded — check the community wiki for the current version.
3k
c/trialwatch·posted 2 years ago by u/hsa_math

SURPASS — 12 things I got wrong before I got it right

Readout Long Haul ×9 Cold Box ×2 Slow Clap ×2

Thinking out loud about this: SURPASS — 12 things I got wrong before I got it right.

Started keeping the trial identifiers straight in a note file because I kept mixing up two programmes in the same sentence.

Went looking for the registered protocol to see whether the endpoint had changed. It had not, which was reassuring and worth checking.

The discontinuation numbers were the most useful thing in the paper for me and they were in a supplementary table.

If two or three other people have done the same thing we might actually learn something. Alone it is an anecdote.

3,638 up / 588 down86% upvoted48 commentsid 5sbmdm17 Jun 2024

48 comments

21 in this archive, depth 5

best — the order this archive was captured in

u/rania_salinas419 points·2 years ago·edited

Discontinuation rates are a tolerability result. A trial with a strong efficacy number and heavy discontinuation is telling you two things and people only quote one.

replysharereportpermalink
u/yara_bakken312 points·2 years ago·edited

Not convinced. Cross-trial comparison between two programmes with different populations and designs is not a comparison.

replysharereportpermalink
u/week_four_wall79 points·2 years ago

That is the 68-week readout, not the 72-week one. Different trial, different duration.

replysharereportpermalink
u/karl_fischer_kev152 points·2 years ago

This. Intention-to-treat versus completer analysis routinely moves the headline by several points.

replysharereportpermalink
u/hamza_zielinski37 points·2 years ago

Is that intention-to-treat or completers?

replysharereportpermalink
[removed]28 points·2 years ago

[removed by moderator]

replysharereportpermalink
u/anders_karlsen0 points·2 years ago

Agreed. Half the arguments on this site are two people quoting different trials at each other without noticing.

replysharereportpermalink
u/sten_palacios133 points·2 years ago

Push back: an open-label extension tells you about the people who stayed. That is a different question.

replysharereportpermalink
u/eu_apotheke_a38 points·2 years ago

Same. A press release is a claim about a result; the publication is the result.

replysharereportpermalink
u/ines_castellanos26 points·2 years ago

SURPASS is the diabetes programme and reports glycaemic endpoints

replysharereportpermalink
u/plateau_patrol11 points·2 years ago

The registered protocol is public. Comparing the registered primary endpoint with the reported one is a two-minute check and it is how outcome switching gets caught.

replysharereportpermalink
u/trialwatch_theoMOD102 points·2 years ago

Left up and flaired Trial Data. The publication is linked rather than the coverage, which is what we ask for.

replysharereportpermalink
u/hsa_mathOP29 points·2 years ago

Left up and flaired Trial Data.

Agreed. And the interval, not the point estimate, is what the trial actually established.

replysharereportpermalink
u/nils_tulloch-8 points·2 years ago

Agreed on comparators. "Superior" means nothing until you know superior to what and at what dose.

replysharereportpermalink
u/enzo_ferrari1 point·2 years ago

Small fix — that was the cardiovascular outcomes trial, so weight was a secondary endpoint and the population was different.

replysharereportpermalink
u/marit_laurent50 points·2 years ago

Open-label extensions lose their randomisation. Anybody still enrolled at week 104 is a selected group and the numbers describe that group.

replysharereportpermalink
u/blunt_coldbox_notes25 points·2 years ago

Disagree — that figure is from the diabetes programme and you are quoting it as an obesity endpoint.

replysharereportpermalink
u/britta_boateng27 points·2 years ago

Careful with that mean. The distribution around it was wide enough that it describes very few individual participants.

replysharereportpermalink
u/ferran_dahlberg15 points·2 years ago

Correction: SURMOUNT is the obesity programme and SURPASS is the diabetes one. The figure you quoted belongs to the other one.

replysharereportpermalink
u/alcohol_aversion4 points·2 years ago

Spent an evening with the appendix tables and found the subgroup detail that the entire thread had been speculating about.

replysharereportpermalink
u/milos_trevino2 points·2 years ago

How long was the randomised phase before any extension?

replysharereportpermalink
Permalinked branches
Deep branches get their own page so a single reply chain can be linked and read on its own.
About c/trialwatch

Clinical trial reading group. New readouts, protocol amendments, endpoint definitions, dropout handling, and the difference between a press release and a publication. Absolute risk reduction and number-needed-to-treat are house dialect here.

34kmembers
95submissions
Nov 2023created
submissions / month, last year
Sponsored

PeptideMeter Analytics

Independent testing plus vendor-level trend data. Community-funded, unaffiliated.

peptidemeter.com
c/trialwatch rules
  1. Press-release-only posts must be flaired Press Release until a publication exists.
  2. Give the trial name, phase, n, and primary endpoint in the body.
  3. Relative risk reduction alone is not a result. Show the absolute numbers.
  4. Independent community. Nobody here sells anything, and anyone who tries is banned.
  5. Not medical advice. Describe what you did; never prescribe to a stranger.
  6. Claims need evidence. Batch numbers, dated screenshots, independent test reports, or a citation.
  7. No referral links, discount codes or affiliate URLs. Permanent ban, no appeal.
  8. No contact handles, wallet addresses or tracking numbers — they identify people.
  9. Be recognisably decent. Disagree hard, insult nobody.
Moderators
Volunteers. Unpaid, unaffiliated, and reachable through modmail only.
Before you read on

Several compounds discussed on GLP Research Hub are sold for research use only and are not approved for human use anywhere. Nothing here is medical advice and none of it is written by your clinician. If a post reads like an instruction, treat it as a description of what one stranger did.