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c/compounding·posted 2 years ago by u/gustav_cardoso

[Discussion] the 503A advice in here is 2 years out of date

Discussion Receipts ×8 Well Actually ×3

the 503A advice in here is 2 years out of date. I have gone back and forth on this for months.

The numbers the title promised, since a headline without them is worthless: 2 years. Everything below is context for those.

A 503A pharmacy compounds for an identified patient against a prescription. A 503B outsourcing facility registers with the regulator, may produce without patient-specific prescriptions, and is subject to current good manufacturing practice requirements. The two are governed differently and the difference is not cosmetic.

Compounded preparations are not approved products and carry no bioequivalence claim. That is a statement about regulatory category, not about quality.

That is everything I have. The rest is opinion and I have tried to keep it out.

8,113 up / 6,934 down54% upvoted62 commentsid kkefkc8 Dec 2023

62 comments

25 in this archive, depth 6

best — the order this archive was captured in

u/prior_auth_painMOD122 points·2 years ago

Removed the staff name. Facilities and clinics can be named here; individuals cannot.

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u/ilias_cabrera76 points·2 years ago

A beyond-use date derived from published stability data means something different from one assigned by default rule. Asking which is a fair question and the answer is usually available.

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u/ahmed_fonseca59 points·2 years ago

ask what the beyond-use date is based on

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[removed]56 points·2 years ago

[removed by moderator]

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u/swirl_dont_shakereconstitution72 points·2 years ago

On concentration, which is where I see people actually get hurt.

A compounded vial can be filled at a different concentration from the branded product you were previously using. If you carry over your old arithmetic — same number of units, different mg/mL — you draw a different amount and may not notice for weeks.

Read the label every time you switch. Redo the arithmetic on paper. Write the concentration on the vial. It is the same habit c/reconstitution keeps preaching and this is the case where it actually bites.

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u/camila_mensa50 points·2 years ago

Not convinced. You are comparing a compounded concentration with a branded one and assuming they match.

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u/medutest_mel54 points·2 years ago

Potency and sterility testing on the finished preparation are separate from any certificate covering the starting material. Ask which you are being shown.

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u/controversial_only43 points·2 years ago

I would not read the price difference as a quality signal. Most of it is the consultation model, not the vial.

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u/lift_heavy_thingsresistance training29 points·2 years ago

What did the intake actually ask you?

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u/receptor_bias_rick15 points·2 years ago

do not assume the concentration matches the branded product

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u/swirl_dont_shakereconstitution7 points·2 years ago

a 503B has to register and report, so there is a paper trail to ask for

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u/yusuf_kirchner3 points·2 years ago

ask which facility, then ask for their testing

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u/gustav_cardosoOP2 points·2 years ago

Paid noticeably more at one clinic than another for what turned out to be the same facility behind both.

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u/julia_erdogan27 points·2 years ago

the label on a compounded vial is a legal document, read it

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u/ahmed_okafor35 points·2 years ago

I would not read the price difference as a quality signal.

This is the distinction the whole board runs on. Everything else follows from it.

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u/gustav_cardosoOP25 points·2 years ago

503A or 503B — do you know which?

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u/gustav_cardosoOP16 points·2 years ago

Correcting my own comment: the shortage status changed in the interim, so the arrangement I described no longer applies.

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u/usp_appendixcompendial50 points·2 years ago·edited

shortage status changes and the whole arrangement changes with it

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u/lina_ndiaye16 points·2 years ago·edited

shortage status changes and the whole arrangement changes with it

usp_appendix is right about the concentration trap. It breaks arithmetic that has been reliable for months.

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u/lina_ndiaye29 points·2 years ago

The shortage list is the legal hinge: the permissions that allow certain compounding to happen at scale are tied to a drug’s shortage status, which changes.

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u/emeka_chowdhury-1 point·2 years ago

Salt form matters for mass: a preparation specified as one salt and dosed as the free base gives you a different amount of peptide for the same number on the label.

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u/hydration_hank21 points·2 years ago

The five questions worth asking before you commit to any compounded arrangement.

Which facility, by name. Whether it is a 503A pharmacy or a 503B outsourcing facility. What concentration is on the label. What the beyond-use date is based on. Whether there is potency testing on the finished preparation rather than only on the starting material.

All five are answerable in one email and the pattern of what comes back is more informative than any of the individual answers. An organisation with a quality system finds these questions ordinary.

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u/ahmed_okafor17 points·2 years ago

the pharmacy and the prescriber are two separate questions

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u/jonas_eriksen25 points·2 years ago

if a clinic will not name the facility, that is your answer

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u/helga_vermeulen8 points·2 years ago

salt forms are the recurring argument and the answer is boring

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About c/compounding

Compounded GLP-1s as a supply route: the 503A/503B distinction, the shortage-list mechanics that made compounding legal and then didn't, state board rules, telehealth prescriber models, and what a compounding pharmacy will and will not tell you about its API source.

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