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c/coldchain·posted 2 years ago by u/meera_sandvik

someone explain ice pack to me like I have not read a paper in years

Failure Cold Box ×5 Well Actually ×3

The title is the whole question — someone explain ice pack to me like I have not read a paper in years — but here is why I am asking.

Asked SGN which lines they hold regionally and got a straight list back. That answered my summer ordering question completely.

Kept a vial at room temperature for eleven days by accident. Tested it out of guilt. It was fine.

Ordered from the warehouse in Denmark instead of origin and the transit went from a fortnight to 15 days. Entirely different proposition in August.

If two or three other people have done the same thing we might actually learn something. Alone it is an anecdote.

2,380 up / 401 down86% upvoted52 commentsid ve9k2v6 Jan 2024

52 comments

28 in this archive, depth 5

best — the order this archive was captured in

u/maren_sorensen314 points·2 years ago

A transit temperature logger records a distribution, and time above a threshold matters as much as peak temperature. That is the argument for logging rather than guessing.

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u/tidy_vialdrawer_watch2871 points·2 years ago

A transit temperature logger records a distribution, and time above a threshold matters as much as peak temperature.

This is the distinction that resolves most threads here — powder and solution are different problems.

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u/certified_referenceQC219 points·2 years ago

Right, and asking what the stability statement was written against is one line of email that reframes everything.

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u/tidy_vialdrawer_watch28141 points·2 years ago

What actually matters, in order, because these threads always start at the wrong end.

State first: dry powder is comparatively robust, reconstituted solution is not. Most of the anxiety here is about powder and most of the real risk is about solution.

Then evidence: a warm gel pack is evidence about the pack. A logger is evidence about the box. Only a test is evidence about the material. People routinely reason from the first to the third and it does not follow.

Then prevention, which is dull and effective: shorter lanes where regional stock exists, rigid packaging, the middle of the fridge rather than the door, and the reconstitution date written on the glass.

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u/coa_collectorarchivist107 points·2 years ago

On loggers, since I was sceptical and then bought one.

A small transit logger costs a fraction of a vial and records the whole journey rather than the moment of arrival. What I learned from three of them: my lane is far more stable than I assumed, the one excursion I did capture was on a weekend, and the arrival-temperature guessing I had been doing was worthless.

If you are going to argue about cold chain, argue from a chart. It is a one-off purchase and it ends the speculation permanently.

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u/elodie_kuipers122 points·2 years ago

On loggers, since I was sceptical and then bought one.

Agreed, and a logger costs less than the vial you are worrying about.

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u/osman_eriksen97 points·2 years ago

transit temperature is a distribution, not a number

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u/ferran_laurent76 points·2 years ago

Agreed, and a logger costs less than the vial you are worrying about.

Disagreeing with this line only: freezing a reconstituted vial is not a safe default.

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u/asks_dumb_questions110 points·2 years ago

What actually matters, in order, because these threads always start at the wrong end.

Adding the practical version: ask which lines are held regionally before you order in July.

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u/sten_palacios95 points·2 years ago

Do you know what storage condition the stability statement covers?

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u/asks_dumb_questions47 points·2 years ago

Do you know what storage condition the stability statement covers?

sten_palacios is right that the pack failing is not the material failing. Two separate claims.

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u/emil_marchand20 points·2 years ago

insulation buys hours, not days

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u/meera_sandvikOP-14 points·2 years ago

What was the packaging — rigid outer, gel packs, anything insulating?

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u/anders_karlsen94 points·2 years ago

Lyophilisation removes the water that drives most degradation pathways. That is why the dry cake is comparatively robust and the reconstituted solution is not.

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[deleted]37 points·2 years ago

[deleted]

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u/osman_eriksen31 points·2 years ago

Put a logger in three consecutive orders. Two never went above the range at all and the third spent four hours warm on a Friday. Cost me almost nothing to stop wondering.

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u/spain_receta59 points·2 years ago

Moved everything off the fridge door after reading a thread here and my temperature log immediately got boring.

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u/plain_titration_202440 points·2 years ago

Regional stock changes the question rather than answering it: shorter lanes mean less exposure and fewer variables, which is why the warehouse question is worth asking before ordering in summer.

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u/maren_sorensen25 points·2 years ago·edited

lyophilised powder is far more forgiving than the panic threads suggest

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u/meera_sandvikOP11 points·2 years ago

Which lane, and had it been quoted at that transit time?

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u/britt_okwuosa5 points·2 years ago

the excursion that matters is the one after reconstitution

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u/amara_dziedzic16 points·2 years ago

Was there a logger in the box?

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u/adaeze_weiss21 points·2 years ago

You cannot infer potency from a temperature record. The record tells you what happened to the box; only a test tells you what happened to the material.

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u/ines_lindqvist15 points·2 years ago

Gel packs are designed for a duty cycle. A liquid pack at the end of a longer-than-expected transit is a pack behaving as specified, not evidence of an excursion in the vial.

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u/coldchain_karencold chain13 points·2 years ago

That is the ambient temperature at the destination, not the temperature inside the box. The logger measures the second one.

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u/elodie_kuipers6 points·2 years ago

Same. Door shelf is the worst place in the fridge and it is where everybody puts them.

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u/ilias_steiner4 points·2 years ago

Is this a line they hold in regional stock or is it shipping from origin?

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u/tidy_vialdrawer_watch282 points·2 years ago·edited

powder at room temperature for a few days is usually a non-event

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About c/coldchain

Temperature and stability in the real world: what an excursion actually costs you, why lyophilised powder is far more forgiving than reconstituted solution, how to read a logger CSV, and how to photograph a failed shipment so the conversation with the vendor is short.

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  1. Excursion claims need a logger trace or a photo taken at unboxing. "It felt warm" is not data.
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